First Responders and Farm Emergencies

Welcome, everybody, to the Talking Total Farmer Health podcast. My name is Linda Emanuel. I am AgriSafe’s Agricultural Health Liaison. And today I get the extreme honor to talk to a firefighter up there in Wisconsin, Fire Chief Minor. He is of the Pittsville Wisconsin Fire Department. And if you're wondering, Pittsville is located smack dab in the central part of Wisconsin. Jerry, thank you for joining us today.

Good morning.

So we're, we're going to start off learning more about you and how you first became a first responder. And if you don't mind, share your story with the audience.

Totally understandable. It kind of reminds me of a day of a producer, right? A rancher or a farmer, where they start off for goals in the beginning of the day? Looks completely different at the end. However, you're providing a very needed service, a critical service for our rural residents. And so thank you for taking that nudge to become a first responder similar to your other family members. So we're going to talk about emergencies on the farm today. And, first of all, I want to ask you, do you feel like responding to an emergency call on a farm is similar to responding to a call, like, say, a house or another business? And, and please feel free to elaborate a bit on that.

The farm poses as many dangers as any industry you might go to. So a call to a house can be very similar, but we always ask for more information when we know we're going to a farm complex because, you know, if you're called to a house for an illness, was the illness, you know, something brought on by the occupation? Did they get an exposure during the day? It does bring up a number of additional questions. So a, an industrial setting or a farm setting... to me, same thing. The difference quite often that I tell people is the smell. On a farm, we have places to become entrapped, we have confined spaces, as we do in industry. We have lots of moving parts and machinery, as we do in industry. We have toxic chemicals and toxic atmospheres. Again, same as what we may have in in industry. So, there are more similarities between that than anything. And when we teach firefighters about responding to farms, they need to be, much more attentive because nine times out of ten, they've never been on that farm before. Unless, you know, we see a lot of calls there. Or if they weren't brought up on a farm, they are not aware unless they've been trained about those hazards. So, their chance of getting injured is higher in an atmosphere that they are newly exposed to. So again, when we're called to a farm complex, personally, I usually ask a lot more questions to our dispatch, "is that this is it, that were they involved in this?" And quite often they don't always have the answers because, dispatchers are not always trained to dig for certain things. and that that's something that we, we can correct by working with our dispatchers. So, it's always different going to a farm.

The unknowns, right? There's so many unknowns. And every farm map, every farm plan looks different. You know, there's certainly specific safety procedures that can be taken and safety prevention to take into account, but not all farmers understand or practice that...

When you've seen one farm, you've seen one farm. Because every single one of them is different. Even if it's in a family of farms, there's a difference on every single one of them.

Yes, absolutely. And, and talk a little bit about that RF-DASH program. What does it stand for and what is the purpose of that organization?

Well, the RF-DASH, which stands for Rural Firefighters Delivering Ag Safety and Health Program, was started out of the National Farm Medicine Center. And to elaborate just a bit on that, National Farm Medicine Center is based in Marshfield, Wisconsin, an offshoot, if you will, of the Marshfield Clinic, Sanford Health. And they are one of the ag centers here in the United States. We are fortunate where, where I am to be right next door. The RF-DASH program was one of the programs that has developed out of working with farmers, firefighters, and researchers. So, RF-DASH is a program we can take to any fire department, anywhere in the United States. And it's been done a number of times. So, we're, we're all over the United States now and Canada and teach firefighters about going to their farms in their jurisdiction.

But when we go to a farm, we need to be invited onto that farm. So, we try to marry the farm and the fire department in their jurisdiction. And the reason we want to do that is we can - by walking, doing a simple walk through the farm - look for hazards that may be there every day that they may or may not see. And by pointing those things out, we hopefully are going to prevent an injury or prevent, a death to occur.

I love it. You know, there's that old saying is that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Oh yeah.

And so this is definitely an opportunity to be decreasing your risk and know about those prevention opportunities. I love that idea and I, and we will certainly put the link to RF-DASH program in our show notes so folks can learn more. And thank you for that explanation. You know, you are there on the front lines many times, as a fire department. And, of course, we know that no emergency call is quite the same. But can you give an example of what happens when you first get called to a farm and you talked a little bit about that, that those dispatchers are trying to retrieve information from the caller about exactly what the fire department will be walking into when there's a crisis situation on a farm.

Quite often, the questions that dispatch asks are scripted and, they themselves have to dig outside of that script if they feel there's more information to be gained. And again, that's something that we try to impress on new dispatchers. We do a ride along program here with our county dispatch. And when they bring in a new person, they spend a day with us out in the country and we try to cover, “here's the unique things about what we go to.” So when we get a call, again, to respond to an ag setting, again, we, we tend to ask a lot more questions related to where we're going to, you know. If they said we had an unconscious patient, on so and so's farm, well, it's a little different than going to a house. You know, if they say the patient's in the house, pretty easy to figure out. If the patient's in the back 40 somewhere, I need to send specialized equipment to get to them. Most ambulances and fire engines do not travel down plowed fields and through goat paths to get to people. So, we need to send kind of an armada of, specialized equipment just to get access to the patient.

Entrapment in equipment is also, you know, if the call says, “he's injured his arm.” “Okay. Is that because he's still stuck in the corn picker or, you know, whatever it happens to be?” Again, the more information we can get as a responder, the better off we can prepare for what we think is going on. "Do I need extrication equipment?" which is carried on larger apparatuses. And, and again, "where's the patient?" You know, "Do we need to get this patient to a trauma center?" That's always a yes.

Getting them to an appropriate facility is very important. Personally, I prefer to bring the airship right to my scene. If, if we can, you know, weather is always an issue with helicopters. And let's get them to an appropriate facility immediately. Makes a heck of a difference when it comes to their outcome. Not every facility is set up to deal with that type of trauma, but if you can tell me in the call, the degree of injury and that's really tough for bystanders quite often, especially if it's a family member to give you that description. I like to plan for the worst case scenario, and maybe that's a little bit of overkill, but if it takes me 20 minutes to get to your farm and another 15 to get to the 160 behind, you know, the woods or wherever they happen to be... And I haven't ordered up extra equipment. Now I am cutting into their time of chances of survival. So personally, I like to, I like to flood the response with as much as what I think I need. I can always send them back. But if I have to spend all that time getting there and then realize, that I need this extra stuff? We have lost a great deal of time and which is critical with trauma patients.

Yes. Always, time is critical. And I think it's important for our listeners to realize, is that if there is an emergency and you make that call to 911, they may hold you on the line and ask more questions. That is, personally happened to us last summer on our farm, and we had an emergency. And she was, the dispatcher, was asking me many, many questions. And it was comforting to me, reassuring, that emergency services were already dispatched. She was just trying to learn more, to then relay to the fire departments that were coming, what they were facing.

Oh yeah, and that's what the majority of them will do. They will get us rolling and then go back to the caller. And it can be, you know, especially if this is a family member and, and the injury or illness is really severe, it's very difficult for them to stay on the phone. But, you know, it is extremely important that they do because nine times out of ten they will come up with additional information that we need to have, to, to prepare for and get extra resources.

Absolutely. You talked about some of the trainings that you do, especially if they're new firefighters or firefighters that don't understand, you know, what a farm looks like? What are those exposures look like? And I love this strategy of the RF-DASH program. It's definitely a great opportunity. That's evidence-based research, right? That offers educational opportunities for our rural fire departments. But if you were thinking, whole, nationally, do you think the average fire department staff or volunteers in rural communities are aware of the farm hazards as well as prepared to respond to those emergencies?

Well, this is, again, kind of a long answer, but years ago, when I started, I had on the department here, half the membership worked on or had their own farms or had some history in agriculture. Today, I have, I think three people that have agricultural history, working with farms, or somewhere in the ag industry. And that is, more of a national trend today. The kids that are coming out of school, and it's, it's really rare that they come from farming backgrounds. Outside of RF-DASH, we do ag rescue training, where we teach firefighters how to handle specific ag incidents. And one of the workshops that we can offer is farm familiarization. And we work with a couple of really big farms. And they will take students through the entire complex. You know, for example, showing them the, the, the milking area, showing them where the equipment is stored, showing them the confined space areas. And that in itself helps the student, paint the picture of, “here's what I could be responding to.” So we spend time with those students today because of the lack of familiarization. It's a huge thing. Again, we don't have the, the farming background coming into the fire service. Usually the kids that are that are extremely mechanical, they can adapt to those situations really easily, but they are the minority today.

Yeah. The trend has changed, I agree. We're fewer and fewer farmers. And the farmers that we do have out there are aging. So, they may not be as apt to be part of that volunteer fire department. And, and so, these trainings, such as offered by RF-DASH are our key to, to really taking care of our rural citizens in, in a manner that, like you said, you have a successful outcome. So, as I think about rescue situations... and there, the list could be perpetual, right? It could be go on forever. But can you share a few examples of some rescue situations that commonly occur on farms and ranch country?

Besides being entrapped in equipment... that is normally a fall harvest issue. We see more entrapments and harvesting equipment during the fall for very obvious reasons. The equipment for harvest is, is built rather robustly and the picker doesn't know if it's your arm or a corn stalk. And there are all those types of things. Hazardous atmospheres, today are a big thing. Manure pits, manure, gas, understanding that a manure pit is not just a pond, or underneath the barn, a storage place. It's a lot more than that. Manure, whether it's animal or, or human, in a municipal setting, has four very distinct gases present. And when they agitate the pits before they pump them or, or flush them or whatever they're doing, we need to stay out of those areas because gas production is extremely high when it's released.

What you can't smell can kill you. Okay, that's part of it. Hydrogen sulfide... I'll give you an example. In the case of manure, gas, hydrogen sulfide, and I can't tell you the exact parts per million, but that's the rotten egg odor you get. And I know everybody has smelled it, who lives in the country. Whether they're spreading liquid manure or whatever. But you know that smell. if it's in the right concentration, it's usually not as high as you might think. It deadens your sense of smell, so you may smell it and five minutes you go back and. "Oh, I don't smell it now. It must be safe." Well, it's not, it's still there. And, hydrogen sulfide is definitely one of the most dangerous gases that, that we deal with, and deal with on the farm.

Grain bins in the Midwest are, are huge, not only in size, but in injuries and tragedies. I don't know the number for 25 right now. The last time I looked, there were 12 deaths in the Midwest. And that's, you know, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois, I think. Yeah, I know Nebraska is part of that. That have occurred by grain entrapment, flowing grain. People need to understand what flowing grain, how fast flowing grain can engulf you. If you walk into your, your grain bin to do something and the auger has been removing grain all winter, and all of a sudden you walk across what appears to be a crusted area, and it collapses. You're buried in 1 to 3 seconds. And if you're not on a harness or you're not attached to a rope, or nobody knows you're in there, you are in deep trouble. So, grain bins, toxic atmospheres. I don't want to say they're new. They've been around a long time, but the amount of grain we're storing today is much more than we did 20, 30 years ago. So, more bins are popping up. There's more people working in those agricultural settings. And not everything new is, is safe. Everything comes with a prevention piece. I don't care what operation you are working on, there is always a possibility that you can be injured by, you know, whatever.

So again, we've looked at these things, we try to help. And there are some national programs as well as some state programs that we're looking for more money for right now to help farmers retrofit tractors. You can't buy a new one today and not get rollover protection. You know, even the big lawnmowers you see have rollover protection on them. but there's a lot of older equipment out there. Farm farmers use equipment, way past its lifetime and sometimes things get removed. Or maybe there weren't certain pre, there weren't certain, devices in the case of ROPS in place to start with. So, you know, tractor rollover, it's a unique lifting thing that we have to do, because we, the tractor, whether it's a, a three wheel, four wheel, 12 wheel doesn't make any difference. When we do that lift, we have to secure the wheels in a manner so that if the wheels don't, if the wheels touch the ground while we're doing a lift, it won't roll on our patient. So there's all these little things that each one of these situations requires. And I'll tell you, it's not something that's taught in basic, fire education, nor is it taught in basic EMS. You have to go beyond those programs. If you live or work in an ag area, which most of us do. Again, long answer to a short question.

But important to know the details behind the why, right?

That's right. And the last thing we want to see, and I'll try to be brief here, is a death on that farm. And the comparison that I make with losing a local farmer is the same as losing a firefighter. It- if we lose a firefighter because of an injury or some tragic event on that incident. The ripple effect that that has not only in the department but in that small community is massive. It is no different than losing that local farmer that's been there, you know, family farm for 100 years. And we've had that experience here, and it's not one that I want to ever have again. But the similarities are amazing. It is amazing. The chances of that fire chief being chief in three years is, is not always really great because that type of incident, they kind of... They have a, we have a tendency to lose chiefs and lose other people, if we have a line of duty death. The chances of that farm staying in operation, especially if it was a smaller family run operation are really, really slim. And what does that cost in dollars to the area? Well, that answer is not always there, but it's usually significant. So, you know, to say that we, we do have a couple things in common with our farms and, and those things in particular, we do not want to happen. That's why we try all this prevention stuff. It's no different when we do prevention with kids in schools, you know, the do's and don'ts, it's the same thing. It can be a little harder sometimes when we're going out to a well-established farm that's been doing things the way they have for the last 50 years. Sometimes there's a crust there that we have to break through. But, the importance of doing that is, it's, there's a tenfold importance, if that makes any sense.

You're saving a life, you're saving a community.

Yeah, very good.

It is, and it is true these, these small town communities, many times those firefighters know the people that they're, they're going to rescue. And so of course, they want to see them survive and... And if things don't go as planned, how that can affect and, and really create a burden for that firefighter and, and especially chiefs that are managing so much. So, I'm-

And that that in itself is, is a huge thing. You know, quite often small communities, we know a lot of the people we're going to go see. And you know, you may have known him since you were a child, but now you're taking care of them. It's unique, but it does bring in a whole new stressor that you don't see in large, large communities, like you do in a small town. Rural, rural fire and EMS is a unique animal. And that's one of those reasons.

We are very thankful and grateful for your dedication. And along with all the rural fire departments out there for helping us to live a healthy life and, and offering these prevention programs to help us always ensure that we stay safe and healthy for our families and our communities. Is there anything else you'd like to share?

You know, I would ask people to, you know, listen to the podcast and, and if there is something that we didn't discuss, chances are we have an answer to it. We just have to, find the question. Look us up. Not only my department, you can certainly call me, but, there are a lot of avenues that the Farm Center has. I mean, a lot. They're a small organization in the city of Marshfield, but Marshfield Clinic is not. They have tons of other information on farm related injuries, prevention, they have just a wealth of stuff there. They have a lot of researchers that work on multiple agriculture related projects. They have tons of published data. I would find it hard to believe that, that we don't have an answer for some of those questions. So, utilize what's being provided. That's the best advice I can I can give. Get your firefighters trained. If you are a farmer or rancher that's listening to this, call your local fire department, invite them out to your property. That's all it takes to get the dialogue going. And they in turn should invite you back to their fire department. You know, "here's what we, we have for equipment and here's how we're trying to fund it." I mean, there are all kinds of marriages there that work out extremely well. But you have to take the first step. Somebody does.

Well said.   And that wraps up this episode. Thank you so much for listening. We will continue talking about Farm Mapping next time, with a deeper dive into the RF-DASH program, so stay tuned. This episode was created by AgriSafe Network, directed by Laura Siegel, hosted by me, Linda Emanuel, edited by Joel Sharpton for ProPodcastingServices.com, with special guest Chief Jerry Minor.